[Kzyxtalk] OFFLIST_list grievance process

[David]

Good morning King.

 

Your definition of civility has cratered. 

 

David

 

David Steffen

KZYX Business Development

(707) 895-2324 office

(707) 322-9895 cell

(707) 895-2451 fax

 

  _____  

From: kzyxtalk-bounces at lists.mcn.org [mailto:kzyxtalk-bounces at lists.mcn.org]
On Behalf Of King Collins
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 11:14 AM
To: kzyxtalk at lists.mcn.org
Cc: Dennis O'Brien
Subject: [Kzyxtalk] OFFLIST_list grievance process

 

Hi Sheila,

 

I agree with your sentiment in support of Beth. I think we should all learn
to take criticism and insult. 

 

But I am determined to shield Norm. He should not have to decide who is
thrown off of the list, or to give any other kind of reprimand. That's bad
for him and bad for us.

 

If somebody is going to censured in any way and worst would be to be removed
from the list, then that should be done by the participants on the list.

 

So if David Steffen has a beef and seeks redress from Norm. I say, No man,
you seek redress from us, the list participants. 

 

And the process of drawing up a grievance leads to  clarification. And
things tend to cool down.

 

And anyway such investigation will benefit the truth-seekers. I don't think
David Steffen wants Beth to clarify what she meant by her remarks. Because
there is truth in each of them.

 

And while this is in part a deflection from Norm, it is also an acceptance
of our responsibility to police ourselves and secure our right to own the
list. And in the process, dig even deeper into the story.

 

By the way, I most emphatically support your effort to redress your
exclusion. I will pay attention to it in the near future. 

 

--king

 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Unable to deliver your message
From: Yahoo Groups <notify at yahoogroups.com>
To: sheila.dawn50 at yahoo.com
CC: 

I say if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I don't believe in
censorship by any group of any person for expressing an opinion.
This is America, folks. 
Beth expressed an opinion-David rebutted with his statement. End of story.
Let's not blow everything up into a huge drama.
I was falsely accused by W. Dan in the AVA of trying to blow up the
station's computers with a vacuum cleaner. I got a good laugh out of that
distortion. I told the facts of the situation in the next issue. 
Let's give people credit for having the intelligence to sort out truth from
fiction. Most people have already picked out there allies in the fray over
the radio station and its policies so let's try to keep the discussion civil
and factual.
I am tired of the power struggle. Let's find common ground to work through
the problems we are encountering--lack of transparency in the decision
making process and lack of true access of all points of view on our public
air waves.
Sheila Dawn

King Collins <king at greenmac.com> wrote:

David Steffen says:  She (Beth Bosk) doesn't know me yet she casually throws
insults around, and the administrator of this list doesn't admonish her or
remove her from the list. The unconscionable epithets she regularly includes
in her angry and dishonest screeds, which often get forwarded by her fans,
have no place in any discussion of KZYX or the individuals.  

 

Steffen charges that Bosk should be censored. And there may be others who
agree. 

 

But for the sake of democracy and the colonized masses,  let's not call on
the list administrator. He's already done a courageous and costly service,
by starting this listserv.

 

We know that the administrator has the power to shut us down, and if I may
express my bias: Thank God it is de Vall and not Aigner who controls this
list.

 

And so it has come to pass that on KZYXtalk listserv, the most democratic
discussion that ever happened at KZYX, David steffen accuses Beth Bosk of
casually throwing insults around (See above), and that Beth Bosk should be
censored for her remarks. 

 

Suggested Grievance Procedure. I am not kidding about this.

 

Once the grievance has been clearly stated, and Beth has had the opportunity
to respond, then I suggest we take comments from others and a vote to see if
others agree that there is substance to the grievance. 

 

And if we the people have so decided, then we should have a hearing, perhaps
in front of a panel of list users, chosen in some way, or perhaps a panel of
judges chosen in some way, or perhaps in front of everyone. As in Common
Law, we must find some way to reach a judgment. 

 

And should one be found guilty, we can proceed to the consequence phase.
Here we can use our imagination. Perhaps an announcement in the newspapers
that so-in-so was found to be to be guilty of making unfounded nasty
comments, and/or so-in-so will be banished from the list for a period of
time. 

 

I am serious about this proposal, because I don't want Norm de Vall on the
hot seat, and because I genuinely believe that we must find a democratic way
to resolve our differences and because I don't want to lose this list or
anyone on it.

 

For KZYXtalk, --king collins

 

* * * *

 

 

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