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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Good morning King.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Your definition of civility has cratered. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>David<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Bodoni MT Black"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bodoni MT Black";color:navy'>David Steffen</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Bodoni MT Black"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bodoni MT Black";color:navy'>KZYX Business
Development</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Bodoni MT Black"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bodoni MT Black";color:navy'>(707)
895-2324 office</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Bodoni MT Black"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bodoni MT Black";color:navy'>(707)
322-9895 cell</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Bodoni MT Black"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Bodoni MT Black";color:navy'>(707)
895-2451 fax</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> kzyxtalk-bounces@lists.mcn.org
[mailto:kzyxtalk-bounces@lists.mcn.org] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>King Collins<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, May 17, 2014 11:14
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">kzyxtalk@lists.mcn.org</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Dennis O'Brien<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Kzyxtalk] OFFLIST_list
grievance process</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi Sheila,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I agree with your sentiment in support of Beth. I think we should all
learn to take criticism and insult. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>But I am determined to shield Norm. He should not have to decide who is
thrown off of the list, or to give any other kind of reprimand. That's bad for
him and bad for us.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>If somebody is going to censured in any way and worst would be to be
removed from the list, then that should be done by the participants on the
list.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>So if David Steffen has a beef and seeks redress from Norm. I say, No
man, you seek redress from us, the list participants. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>And the process of drawing up a grievance leads to
clarification. And things tend to cool down.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>And anyway such investigation will benefit the truth-seekers. I don't
think David Steffen wants Beth to clarify what she meant by her remarks.
Because there is truth in each of them.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>And while this is in part a deflection from Norm, it is also an
acceptance of our responsibility to police ourselves and secure our right to
own the list. And in the process, dig even deeper into the story.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>By the way, I most emphatically support your effort to redress your
exclusion. I will pay attention to it in the near future. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>--king<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Unable to deliver your message<br>
From: Yahoo Groups <<a href="mailto:notify@yahoogroups.com">notify@yahoogroups.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:sheila.dawn50@yahoo.com">sheila.dawn50@yahoo.com</a><br>
CC: <br>
<br>
I say if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I don't believe in
censorship by any group of any person for expressing an opinion.<br>
This is <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">America</st1:place></st1:country-region>,
folks. <br>
Beth expressed an opinion-David rebutted with his statement. End of story.
Let's not blow everything up into a huge drama.<br>
I was falsely accused by W. Dan in the AVA of trying to blow up the station's
computers with a vacuum cleaner. I got a good laugh out of that distortion. I
told the facts of the situation in the next issue. <br>
Let's give people credit for having the intelligence to sort out truth from
fiction. Most people have already picked out there allies in the fray over the
radio station and its policies so let's try to keep the discussion civil and
factual.<br>
I am tired of the power struggle. Let's find common ground to work through the
problems we are encountering--lack of transparency in the decision making
process and lack of true access of all points of view on our public air waves.<br>
Sheila Dawn<br>
<br>
King Collins <<a href="mailto:king@greenmac.com">king@greenmac.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
David Steffen says: </span></font><span class=apple-style-span><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> She (Beth Bosk) doesn’t know me yet she casually throws
insults around, and the administrator of this list doesn’t admonish her
or remove her from the list. The unconscionable epithets she regularly includes
in her angry and dishonest screeds, which often get forwarded by her fans, have
no place in any discussion of KZYX or the individuals. </span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Steffen charges that Bosk should be censored. And there may be others
who agree. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>But for the sake of democracy and the colonized masses, let's not
call on the list administrator. He's already done a courageous and costly
service, by starting this listserv.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>We know that the administrator has the power to shut us down, and if I
may express my bias: Thank God it is de Vall and not Aigner who controls this
list.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>And so it has come to pass that on KZYXtalk listserv, the most
democratic discussion that ever happened at KZYX, David steffen accuses Beth
Bosk of casually throwing insults around (See above), and that Beth Bosk should
be censored for her remarks. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Suggested Grievance Procedure. I am not kidding about this.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Once the grievance has been clearly stated, and Beth has had the
opportunity to respond, then I suggest we take comments from others and a vote
to see if others agree that there is substance to the grievance. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>And if we the people have so decided, then we should have a hearing,
perhaps in front of a panel of list users, chosen in some way, or perhaps a
panel of judges chosen in some way, or perhaps in front of everyone. As in
Common Law, we must find some way to reach a judgment. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>And should one be found guilty, we can proceed to the consequence
phase. Here we can use our imagination. Perhaps an announcement in the
newspapers that so-in-so was found to be to be guilty of making unfounded nasty
comments, and/or so-in-so will be banished from the list for a period of
time. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I am serious about this proposal, because I don't want Norm de Vall on
the hot seat, and because I genuinely believe that we must find a democratic
way to resolve our differences and because I don't want to lose this list or
anyone on it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>For KZYXtalk, --king collins<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>* * * *<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
Kzyxtalk mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Kzyxtalk@lists.mcn.org">Kzyxtalk@lists.mcn.org</a><br>
http://lists.mcn.org/mailman/listinfo/kzyxtalk<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
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