<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi Sheila,<div><br></div><div>I agree with your sentiment in support of Beth. I think we should all learn to take criticism and insult. </div><div><br></div><div>But I am determined to shield Norm. He should not have to decide who is thrown off of the list, or to give any other kind of reprimand. That's bad for him and bad for us.</div><div><br></div><div>If somebody is going to censured in any way and worst would be to be removed from the list, then that should be done by the participants on the list.</div><div><br></div><div>So if David Steffen has a beef and seeks redress from Norm. I say, No man, you seek redress from us, the list participants. </div><div><br></div><div>And the process of drawing up a grievance leads to clarification. And things tend to cool down.</div><div><br></div><div>And anyway such investigation will benefit the truth-seekers. I don't think David Steffen wants Beth to clarify what she meant by her remarks. Because there is truth in each of them.</div><div><div><br></div><div>And while this is in part a deflection from Norm, it is also an acceptance of our responsibility to police ourselves and secure our right to own the list. And in the process, dig even deeper into the story.</div><div><br></div><div>By the way, I most emphatically support your effort to redress your exclusion. I will pay attention to it in the near future. </div><div><br></div><div>--king</div><div><br></div><div>-------- Original Message --------<br>Subject: Unable to deliver your message<br>From: Yahoo Groups <<a href="mailto:notify@yahoogroups.com">notify@yahoogroups.com</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:sheila.dawn50@yahoo.com">sheila.dawn50@yahoo.com</a><br>CC: <br><br> I say if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I don't believe in censorship by any group of any person for expressing an opinion.<br> This is America, folks. <br> Beth expressed an opinion-David rebutted with his statement. End of story. Let's not blow everything up into a huge drama.<br> I was falsely accused by W. Dan in the AVA of trying to blow up the station's computers with a vacuum cleaner. I got a good laugh out of that distortion. I told the facts of the situation in the next issue. <br>Let's give people credit for having the intelligence to sort out truth from fiction. Most people have already picked out there allies in the fray over the radio station and its policies so let's try to keep the discussion civil and factual.<br> I am tired of the power struggle. Let's find common ground to work through the problems we are encountering--lack of transparency in the decision making process and lack of true access of all points of view on our public air waves.<br> Sheila Dawn<br><br>King Collins <<a href="mailto:king@greenmac.com">king@greenmac.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>David Steffen says: <span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px; "> She (Beth Bosk) doesn’t know me yet she casually throws insults around, and the administrator of this list doesn’t admonish her or remove her from the list. The unconscionable epithets she regularly includes in her angry and dishonest screeds, which often get forwarded by her fans, have no place in any discussion of KZYX or the individuals. </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128); font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px; "> </span><br><div><div><br></div><div>Steffen charges that Bosk should be censored. And there may be others who agree. </div><div><br></div><div>But for the sake of democracy and the colonized masses, let's not call on the list administrator. He's already done a courageous and costly service, by starting this listserv.</div><div><br></div><div>We know that the administrator has the power to shut us down, and if I may express my bias: Thank God it is de Vall and not Aigner who controls this list.</div><div><br></div><div>And so it has come to pass that on KZYXtalk listserv, the most democratic discussion that ever happened at KZYX, David steffen accuses Beth Bosk of casually throwing insults around (See above), and that Beth Bosk should be censored for her remarks. </div><div><br></div><div>Suggested Grievance Procedure. I am not kidding about this.</div><div><br></div><div>Once the grievance has been clearly stated, and Beth has had the opportunity to respond, then I suggest we take comments from others and a vote to see if others agree that there is substance to the grievance. </div><div><br></div><div>And if we the people have so decided, then we should have a hearing, perhaps in front of a panel of list users, chosen in some way, or perhaps a panel of judges chosen in some way, or perhaps in front of everyone. As in Common Law, we must find some way to reach a judgment. </div><div><br></div><div>And should one be found guilty, we can proceed to the consequence phase. Here we can use our imagination. Perhaps an announcement in the newspapers that so-in-so was found to be to be guilty of making unfounded nasty comments, and/or so-in-so will be banished from the list for a period of time. </div><div><br></div><div>I am serious about this proposal, because I don't want Norm de Vall on the hot seat, and because I genuinely believe that we must find a democratic way to resolve our differences and because I don't want to lose this list or anyone on it.</div><div><br></div><div>For KZYXtalk, --king collins</div><div><br></div><div>* * * *</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Kzyxtalk mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Kzyxtalk@lists.mcn.org">Kzyxtalk@lists.mcn.org</a><br>http://lists.mcn.org/mailman/listinfo/kzyxtalk<br></div><br></div></body></html>