[Kzyxtalk] Fwd: Representing Members For Change on FB
Norman de Vall
ndevall at mcn.org
Sun Feb 8 20:54:12 PST 2015
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Norman de Vall <ndevall at mcn.org>
> Subject: Re: Representing Members For Change on FB
> Date: February 8, 2015 8:53:38 PM PST
> To: King Collins <king at greenmac.com>
>
> Don't presume that those who say they don't read
> kzyxtalk aren't. Don't spend your time wondering.
>
> The challenge is to win this election. Q: What
> is the easiest way to reach out to the kzyx community?
>
> Mary Aigner is coming to my birthday party. Please
> join us. Let's continue the discussion. We can
> create change.
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2015, at 8:15 PM, King Collins wrote:
>
>> Thanks for responding, Doug. Much of what you wrote has nothing to do with what I am saying. We are talking about the name and how you are misrepresenting it. The idea of having another moderator (I suggested Denny) is not the point. That would only be relevant if you kept the name.
>>
>> Doug said;
>>
>>> I jus don't have the time or inclination to worry much about the Facebook page.
>>
>>
>> It is easy to change the name of the page. Here's how:
>>
>>> How do I change my Page's name?
>>>
>>> If less than 200 people like your Page, you must be an admin or editor to change your Page's name. To change your Page's name:
>>>
>>> • Click About below your Page's cover photo.
>>> • Click Page Info in the left column.
>>> • Hover over the Name section and click Edit.
>>> • Enter a new name and click Save Changes.
>>
>> * * * *
>> Otherwise, are you saying that no matter how much or on what grounds I disagree, you will NOT take these simple steps to CHANGE THE NAME of the Facebook page?
>>
>> I have given clear and valid reasons why this change should be made, but you think it is not worth the trouble, not worth the trouble to avoid misrepresenting others. In so doing you make yourself indistinguishable from the arrogant style of Coate on the KZYX site. Or the attitude of Stuart Campbell and Paul Lambert who are just "too busy" to check in with KZYZtalk.
>>
>> This also reminds me of this time last year, when could not bring yourself to agree to communicate regularly to and with the membership.
>>
>> What does this say about what you would do if you had power?
>>
>> You apparently don't care what I think about this and I don't see how I could be more clear. To pretend that it is a lot of effort is ridiculous. To say you don't have the "inclination" is arrogant and insulting to member control.
>>
>> --king
>>
>> * * * *
>>
>> On Feb 8, 2015, at 7:04 PM, Doug McKenty wrote:
>>
>>> I jus don't have the time or inclination to worry much about the Facebook page. It currently has about 115 likes, almost none of whom are current members. Many of them are friends of Christina Aanastad and joined shortly after she did. I as worried as Denny is that too many moderators allow for "official posts" that may be misconstrued as personal attacks. I also agree with Denny that your cartoons are incendiary and add fuel to the opposition's perspective. Anyone can post to the page as you did, but I try to keep my posts as moderator about issues, articles and interviews pertaining to the campaign. If you have information about such an upcoming event, send it my way.
>>>
>>> I created the page in hopes that I could show the board I was not part of a "vocal minority" then they started accusing me of being part of
>>> a "faction." I am feeling pretty positive about the odds in this campaign right now and I have numbers from the last election which show a lot of members feel the way I do. I do not wish to sabotage our gains by letting too many people
>>> speak for me through my page. KZYXtalk has since been created and is a better venue for discussion anyway.
>>>
>>> I am focusing on letters to the editor and lining up interviews with KNYO, KMEC and MendocinoTV as that is about all I have time for. If you want something posted on Facebook and a side post is not enough for you, send it to me and we will discuss it. Better yet, sent it to KZYX talk and we can all discuss it.
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Feb 8, 2015, at 12:09 PM, King Collins <King at greenmac.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Denny said:
>>>>
>>>>> For what it's worth, I believe the current page would benefit from having Sheila added as a moderator, which would expand the content via a trusted journalist. Perhaps that would be a practical compromise in the middle of an election while considering how to set up permanent media that is more inclusive of the members and free of political considerations.
>>>>
>>>> All Doug has to do change the name of the group. We can decide, later after the election, whether to have a site with the organizational name.
>>>>
>>>> --king
>>>>
>>>> Three of us met at Lauren's trying to think of a name for "our" group. I suggested "KZYX Members For Change." I never imagined that an individual would represent the group, and even to have the power of censorship.
>>>>
>>>> Denny, if you represent good governance than insist on the principle of the mandate, perhaps the most fundamental principle of direct democracy.
>>>>
>>>> Doug, will you please change the name of the group. That is easy to do and solves the problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 8, 2015, at 11:17 AM, Dennis OBrien wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The idea of having an independent media that is controlled by the membership has been tossed around as a long-term project. If anyone wishes to set up such a Facebook page, they could join with other members and agree as to its mission/purpose/goals and who will be the moderators. That would apply the group process from the beginning.
>>>>>
>>>>> The current page was put together by one person for a short-term political effort, and does not enjoy the benefits of group collaboration. It is probably not being used to its full potential, but it does have simple governance, i.e., a single moderator. So it is not as effective for conveying a lot of information, but it does prevent the kind of personal attacks that I fear would swing the upcoming election the other way.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since there is no process approved by the group for posting on a group-established page, I can't support just adding folks as moderators to the current one and letting them have at it. I fear it would destroy the trust that I have been trying to build, that Norm believes is so important.
>>>>>
>>>>> So perhaps an independent "Members of KZYX" is a Facebook page of the future, with its own governance that is established by a group process, totally out of the control of any director or candidate. In an ideal world, that's what the CAB should be doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> For what it's worth, I believe the current page would benefit from having Sheila added as a moderator, which would expand the content via a trusted journalist. Perhaps that would be a practical compromise in the middle of an election while considering how to set up permanent media that is more inclusive of the members and free of political considerations.
>>>>>
>>>>> Denny
>>>>>
>>>>> PS - Pictures!
>>>>>
>>>>> From: King Collins <King at greenmac.com>
>>>>> To: Dennis OBrien <dennisobrien at sharejerusalem.com>
>>>>> Cc: doug mckenty <dougmck at gmail.com>; Norman de Vall <ndevall at mcn.org>; she-la <sheila.dawn50 at yahoo.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 8, 2015 9:55 AM
>>>>> Subject: Representing Members For Change on FB
>>>>>
>>>>> Dennis said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So although I promote free speech, when you're speaking for others there are other considerations.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes! The question of whether the Facebook page with a COLLECTIVE name and purpose should have a single moderator.
>>>>>
>>>>> If that can't be fixed, then the name "KZYX Members For Change" is a fraud, to put it bluntly. I grow weary of the vacillation and confusion on such a basic organizational principle.
>>>>>
>>>>> --king
>>>>>
>>>>> p.s. To be clear, there are circumstances when an individual is put in charge of a collective process. In that case the group as a whole agrees to that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Working together is a process. As per Denny's idea, I am not going into details about anyone's practice (note the vagueness). The principle is than an individual should not represent the collective unless he or she is so mandated by the group. That has been one of the accurate criticisms of John Coate, running the KZYX Facebook page and making all kinds of statements signed "KZYX&Z - Mendocino County Public Broadcasting"
>>>>>
>>>>> An easy solution would be to change the name of the Facebook page to something with Doug's name in it. Or perhaps, it could be changed to Doug and Denny's campaign page.
>>>>>
>>>>> * * * *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2015, at 8:53 PM, Dennis OBrien wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It appears that anyone can post to the facebook page, though it is not as prominent as when a moderator posts. Even King's cartoon is there when you click on "posts to page".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also notice that other pages can be linked there, such as the Community Rights Organization.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So perhaps it is possible for others to be "authors" without adding too many moderators.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My personal conflict is that I am urging people to focus on policies, not personalities, and I would have trouble if King's cartoon were displayed prominently on a page that suggested it represented the candidates seeking change. I believe that Doug, as moderator, would have the same concern. So although I promote free speech, when you're speaking for others there are other considerations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meanwhile, letters to the editor and posts to email lists are getting a far greater response. A person could always publicize links to other sites that way, e.g., my sharejerusalem.com site, or King's greenmac.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The suggestions for outreach so far have emphasized individual efforts that have a cumulative effect in the print media and online. As a libertarian, I believe in this model. Trying to present a common message where everyone agrees on each word can be empowering, but can also be a contentious energy drain. I have tried to incorporate everyone's suggestions in the proposals I've presented, but I don't want to force them on anyone. I would rather use the power of persuasive example.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those are my thoughts on whether a media outlet with multiple managers can be created right now. And why I have been promoting the cumulative individual action model in recent posts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Denny
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: King Collins <King at greenmac.com>
>>>>>> To: Dennis OBrien <dennisobrien at sharejerusalem.com>
>>>>>> Cc: doug mckenty <dougmck at gmail.com>; she-la <sheila.dawn50 at yahoo.com>; Liz Helenchild <deejayliz at yahoo.com>; Norman de Vall <ndevall at mcn.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 7:22 PM
>>>>>> Subject: KZYX Members For Change-authorship
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Denny and Doug,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How about the authorship of the KZYXmfc Facebook page, with Doug as the only moderator? Has that been discussed and is it going to change? I have raised this issue before and I consider it important. --king
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2015, at 1:22 PM, King Collins wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Denny,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You've settled things about the mailing. It's not going to happen, although I think we could have learned more, by asking at least for a mailing to a select set of zipcodes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However there are limits to your energy and your patience. Overall things look good, from the members point of view.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did Stuart give you the email addresses of the candidates? I can't seem to find the message you (I think) forwarded from him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Inlcuding the person who dropped out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I want to invite them to a gettogether, soon. Who are these people?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> king
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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