<div dir="ltr"><div>Per "violation" or does it need to say "per misdemeanor".<br><br></div>-Caitlin<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Beth Brenneman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:storyteller2069@gmail.com" target="_blank">storyteller2069@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Caitlin, an infraction is like running a stop sign or having a joint on you. Misdemeanor is the next level. Felony is the worst. Between Mis. and Fel. there can be wobblers. Beth<br>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="h5">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 2:04 PM, Caitlin Alexander <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:caitlin29@gmail.com" target="_blank">caitlin29@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Ok, yes. Mandatory jail time in combination with $1000 PER INFRACTION is strong and if it follows what's allowable for a misdemeanor then it seems that would be the best way to go. <br><br>We need to be sure and have a clear definition of the infraction. <br>
</div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 1:56 PM, karinajoy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:karinacotler@gmail.com" target="_blank">karinacotler@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Charles said he thought the maximum fine for a misdemeanor was $1000. Since there could be hundreds of violations/day, I think we should reduce the fine from $10,000 (which makes me laugh every time I read it) to $1000 plus mandatory jail time (should that be 6 months, instead of 1 year, just be make sure we're within the law?) per violation.<span><font color="#888888"><div>
K</div></font></span><div><div><div> <br><div><div>On Apr 24, 2014, at 1:23 PM, Caitlin Alexander wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>I agree Karina.<br></div><div><br>$10,000 per violation ($1,000 per really is chump change for mega-oil)<br>
<br></div>Maximum jail time as defined by state law (Vogel thought it was 12 months per violation - we need to find out)<br>
<br></div><div>Vogel recommended both of these in conjunction not and/or.<br></div><div><br>Define the board members as specifically accountable for these violations not just the "corporation".<br><br></div><div>
-Caitlin<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 1:13 PM, karinajoy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:karinacotler@gmail.com" target="_blank">karinacotler@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">You really think it's worth passing an ordinance that allows a judge to snub his nose at us by giving an offender a $1/day fine? or probation? What kind if disincentive is that? They could just come in anyway and pay the puny fine. If we're going to work our butts off gathering signature, don't we want the ordinance to actually do it's job?<span><font color="#888888"><div>
K</div></font></span><div><div><div><br><div><div>On Apr 24, 2014, at 12:57 PM, Baile Oakes wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">I will vote no on this.<div><br></div><div>Tim seems to agree.</div>
<div><br></div><div>We have more than 11 people in our organization.</div><div><br></div><div>We do not have a process in place to make a rush decision that represents the will of the full CRNMC. </div><div><br></div><div>
A lot of people think we are ready to gather signatures.</div><div><br></div><div>There is no definitive word of how long the process of amending will take.</div><div><br></div><div>Shannon still has not heard back from Ben regarding this matter.</div>
<div><br></div><div>We need all the time we can get to gather signatures.</div><div><br></div><div>We have a good ordinance</div><div><br></div><div>A Great Step Forward</div><div><br></div><div>, not perfect, </div><div>
<br></div><div>what is ?</div><div><br></div><div>let's move forward with signatures and endorsements and get going.</div><div><br></div><div>The clock is ticking</div><div><br></div><div>yep</div><div><br></div><div>
Baile</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Apr 24, 2014, at 11:45 AM, karinajoy wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>Want you to know, even if we change sec.4, it may add only a few days to our process (they have 15 days, but I may be able to speed that up, since the title and summary will not change). Everything else is ready to move forward, with the minor change to the ordinance language - the newspaper publication is ready; the petition is ready; the Letter of Intent won't change. We're ready to open the bank account and file form 410. </div>
<div><br></div><div>The sooner we come to an agreement, the sooner we can start the clock again. I am prepared to drive to the county today and resubmit the Ordinance.</div><div><br></div><div>So far out of 15 responses, 11 have been to go ahead and change sec 4a. The other 4 did not say no. Opinion on 4b is 50-50.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Anyone´else have a strong opinion?</div><div>K</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>On Apr 23, 2014, at 11:52 PM, karinajoy wrote:</div>
<div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="font-size:15px">Sisters and Brothers,</span><div style="font-size:15px"><br></div><div style="font-size:15px">A small but crucially significant problem regarding our Ordinance has arisen. It can be solved if we act now. It will cause some delay, but it is better we fix the problem now than ignore it and regret it later.</div>
<div style="font-size:15px"><br></div><div style="font-size:15px">It has to do with the ENFORCEMENT of the Ordinance. In other words, we need to give our Ordinance the proper teeth with which a judge MUST (not just MAY) enforce the Ordinance and thus dissuade those who would break the law.</div>
<div style="font-size:15px"><br></div><div style="font-size:15px">Barry Vogel pointed this problem out before, but then Norman de Vall raised the concern again. And Charles Wood responded with <span style="font-size:medium">“I don't think that simple use of the word "offense" makes it unenforceable, it just </span><span style="font-size:medium"><b>gives the judge too much latitude</b> to set the fine at whatever level he or she pleases.<b> It could be $1/day. </b></span><span style="font-size:14px"><span style="letter-spacing:0px"><font style="font-size:15px" size="3">The jury decides the facts (guilty or not-guilty), </font></span>Judges interpret the law (amount for the fine).</span><span style="font-size:medium"><b>"</b></span><span style="font-size:medium"> They all agree, we</span> need to be more specific and strong in the enforcement clause. </div>
<br><div style="font-size:15px">So this is Barry's suggestion, as best I recall : </div><div style="font-size:17px">Sec. 4(a). </div><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:6px;margin-left:0px;font:normal normal normal 12px/normal Arial;font-size:15px">
<font style="font-size:17px" size="3"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">Any corporation, government or natural person that violates any prohibition of this Ordinance shall be guilty of a</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> most serious misdemeanor offense </span><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px"> and, upon conviction thereof, shall be sentenced to </span></font><span style="font-size:17px">go to prison for one year and shall </span><span style="font-size:17px">pay a fine of $10,000 for each violation. Each time the pump is turned on, and each stroke of the pump down and up shall be a separate violation, and violation of each section of this Ordinance shall count as a separate violation. Courts shall grant no probation.</span></p>
<div style="font-size:16px"><br></div><div style="font-size:16px">Is there any strong opposition to this change in sec.4(a)? The lawyers at CELDF (or you) may fiddle with the language or the fine, but we need agreement by tomorrow, so we can re-submit asap.</div>
<div><br></div><div>On a second issue:</div><div>Sec. 4 (b) shall we strike out "or any resident of the County<b><i> " and later "or the resident..." ?????</i></b></div><div><b><i>Bus and Prof Code 17200 recently took away the citizen's right to take enforcement action. Ben felt we should claim this right anyway, since it's just another slow erosion of our rights. But Barry thinks we shouldn't risk the ordinance over this. So, should we leave it in or take it out?</i></b></div>
<div><b><i><br></i></b></div><div style="font-size:16px">There will be a cost. We'll have to pay the $200 fee again (which is refunded when we qualify for the ballot). But we'll forfeit the first $200. And there will be some delay. But since I doubt it will change the title or summary, it could be a fast turnaround. </div>
<div style="font-size:16px"><br></div><div style="font-size:16px">Let's do this right. A little additional cost, a little delay. The hurry isn't as great as the need to get it right and have a strong ordinance.</div>
<div style="font-size:16px"><br></div><div style="font-size:16px">So shall we make the change to 4a? and keep or delete citizen enforcement in 4b?</div><div style="font-size:15px"><br></div><div style="font-size:15px">Karina</div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br></div></div><div class="">-- <br><div dir="ltr"><h1 style="text-align:left"><span style="font-weight:normal"><font>"The
trouble is that once you see it, you can't unsee it. And once you've
seen it, keeping quiet, saying nothing, becomes as political an act as
speaking out. There's no innocence. Either way, you're accountable.”</font></span>
<font><a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/6134.Arundhati_Roy" target="_blank">Arundhati Roy</a></font>
</h1><div>
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